Speaker 1: 0:00

Check us out to hear the latest on life in the volunteer state. Yvonca and her guests discuss everything from life, love and business with a Tennessee flair. It's a Tennessee thing, always relatable, always relevant and always a good time. This is Talkin' Tennessee, and now your host, yvonca.

Speaker 2: 0:23

This episode is brought to you by the Landis team, your go-to real estate family in East Tennessee. If you are looking to buy or sell, we are the ones you should call. Give us a call at 865-660-1186 or check out our website at YvoncaSellsRealEstatecom. That's Yvonca Y-V-O-N-N-C-A SellsRealEstatecom.

Speaker 3: 0:50

Welcome back to Talking Tennessee with Yvonca. I am your host and I am here with a dear friend. His name is Dr Alfred DeGraffenreid. Welcome to Talking Tennessee.

Speaker 4: 1:00

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3: 1:01

Most definitely. Well, he is with Leadership Tennessee, but he is so much more than just Leadership Tennessee, and y'all get to hear that. My first question is who is Alfred de Graffin Ray?

Speaker 4: 1:17

Well, that's a loaded question, but I'll certainly answer it. So I am a person who deeply cares about community yes, I benefited from being in the community but I'm also someone who cares about convening and connecting. So I'm a natural born connector. I like to bring people together to solve tough issues. That's one of my favorite things to do is to look at a problem and figure out how to solve it. I guess I'm just wired that way.

Speaker 3: 1:47

Yes. Well, I'll tell you this. When I met you in Nashville, what stuck out to me is, when I walked up, you would have thought we knew each other because you are a connector. You immediately introduced yourself, I introduced myself and we just started talking. And I think to be a connector, you have to be able to be approachable. And did I know who you were? No, I didn't know who the person is, but I knew I wanted to meet this person because I looked across the room and you had that look in your face. You were approachable. And so Tammy White speaks so highly of you and I just wanted to see, okay, who is this person and why is he so relevant to so many issues? So we're going to talk about it. So let's go back to your childhood. What was you like as a child?

Speaker 4: 2:53

Well, I was always accused of talking a lot, that's one thing that I think I have this honest. It kind of runs in my family. I can vividly remember being a kid with my parents. They bought me a VHS tape and the name of the movie was Don't Talk to Strangers, because I would go into Kroger and I would meet everybody in there and say hello and introduce myself and they were like you shouldn't be doing that. It's one thing to be nice, but you can't go around talking to strangers.

Speaker 4: 3:25

Particularly as someone who loved candy. They thought that I would be like somebody could pull up and say, hey, you want some candy? I'm like sure. And they think I'd hop in somebody's car and then be kidnapped or something. So they wanted to make sure I understood that everybody's not nice.

Speaker 3: 3:39

Yes, and that's a hard thing to accept as a kid.

Speaker 4: 3:51

As a kid, but. I do think that I guess the corollary to the story is I'm the type of person who takes people at face value. I've never liked people to say, well, I don't like that person, you're not going to like them either. I don't want you talking to them. That's not how I operate.

Speaker 3: 4:00

Me either. I'm the person.

Speaker 4: 4:05

It's one thing for me to get to know you and then we don't get along right but it's another thing for me to say I don't want to meet you just because somebody else said they don't want to have your own opinion absolutely well, I'll say this I have.

Speaker 3: 4:13

I'm from a small town, uh, called harriman it's about 30 minutes from here and country girl moved to knoxville.

Speaker 3: 4:20

I'll never forget um, and you would think that's not a big thing, but coming from a very small town of 7,000 people to Knoxville, it was like a culture shock.

Speaker 3: 4:31

And the one thing when I came to Bearden High School was oh my God, she talks all the time and so early in life I was told not to talk. So I can relate to what you're saying, because people that, especially when you're young, they tell you not to talk and stay in a child's place and all the different things in our community. But if we don't talk, then a lot of rooms are going to be quiet, a lot of people are not going to connect and a lot of people will not be blessed. That's the way I look at it, and so I'm so glad that people did not cut your voice. But did you ever feel like as a kid that people wanted to cut your voice, especially being a black man, a young kid, and a lot of men need a voice, but a lot of men are not confident enough to use their voice. Did you ever feel like that as a kid that people wanted you to cut your voice.

Speaker 4: 5:33

Well, I mean, I feel like that some days as an adult that people want to cut my voice, especially my wife. She's like all right, I've had enough, but I'm joking about that. I've had enough, but I'm joking about that. But to be serious, my father was the type of person who always taught me, even as a kid, that you look a man in this face and you shake his hand and you certain things. He's a. He was a Vietnam veteran and truck driver as a trade, but he was just a very popular guy as a trade. But he was just a very popular guy. Some would say he had to get the gab. So I watched him walk into places and he would talk to everybody. But he always said you got to have your own voice and you have to stand for what's right, because if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

Speaker 4: 6:19

So that's a lot of different anecdotes that he would share with me as a kid and things that my siblings and I talk about even to this day. My father's no longer uh, here, he's deceased but he would always say, um, just different things. Like a mouth will say anything.

Speaker 3: 6:37

Yes.

Speaker 4: 6:38

And that would be something that I was like well, dad, you know this happened and so-and-so said this. He said, son, don't you know, a mouth will say anything. And it just that would always go over my head because I'm like, yeah, of course a mouth can say anything.

Speaker 3: 6:50

And you're like, what do you mean? What do you mean?

Speaker 4: 6:51

It's like just because someone said it doesn't mean it's true. You have to use critical thinking skills. You do and you also have to like and I do want to pivot for a second, because you made me think about this You're fine Kids like I'm an educator, I've done research, I have my doctorate from Vanderbilt in higher education, leadership and policy.

Speaker 4: 7:13

But the reason why I think it's so important when I mentor kids, particularly kids who come from the other side of the track in Nashville yes, I like to talk to them and say that you have to use that voice, you have to ask questions, because if we're a community of people who make it, we normalize, not asking questions, then you're not helping the kids learn what they need to learn.

Speaker 4: 7:39

You're not preparing them, you're not preparing them, because you have to be able to talk Right and my kids ask a lot of questions, especially, I mean, my son. He tends to ask questions when we're eating dinner and I'll say that's great because that's family time, when we're sitting at the table you can ask questions. But I'm like all right, you've asked enough, let's focus on eating this dinner.

Speaker 3: 7:58

But at least you give them open conversation, dialogue to really talk about what is going on in their life. Yes, and you know, and talk about things that they can ask you about, that they don't understand. Because I think a lot of times when we were kids, there's things that said, because I know one thing that my grandfather said to me that stuck with me and I tell everybody this my grandfather said to me, when you die, what will be your legacy? And so as a kid I was like you what do you mean legacy? What is that? But the older I got and the more I got to get exposed to different things, I realized it was about making a difference.

Speaker 3: 8:42

My grandfather was an educator, very first black principal in my hometown, very first black in a lot of different fields of education, and my grandfather believed in, you know, building up a legacy, building up your community, making a difference and coming outside of yourself. I tell my family all the time is that okay? So we do things for each other? That's not. That is not a thing of yes, it's great and it's easier to do for your family, but when you come outside your four walls, what do you do outside your four walls? That's gonna make a true impact, and so that's probably what you were trying to figure out through life, growing up as a black man. And where did you come from? Memphis, Memphis, Memphis. And what was that like as a kid living in Memphis?

Speaker 4: 9:38

Well, I think Memphis is such a remarkable city and I'm not just saying that because I'm from there, I mean the culture, like the context of what I do for a living, which we'll talk about later. I get to see various pockets throughout the state and I think that Memphis, it, has its fair share of challenges, like other cities, but the culture there you can't find it anywhere else the food, the shopping too.

Speaker 4: 10:05

I mean it's a find it anywhere else the food, the shopping too. I mean it's a lot of stuff to do in Memphis and it just seemed like growing up it was a lot hotter outside than it is today, because I mean I would have a lot of nosebleeds growing up because it's so humid.

Speaker 3: 10:18

Yes.

Speaker 4: 10:19

Right on the Mississippi River and it'd be hot outside. But I'll tell you growing up.

Speaker 3: 10:24

Every time I've ever been, it's been hot.

Speaker 4: 10:27

But it was worth it. The food is great.

Speaker 3: 10:29

The best shrimp and grits I've ever had in my life came out of Memphis.

Speaker 4: 10:34

Well, I'm sure there's a lot of best, a lot of things out of Memphis. But I'll say this other thing about growing up in Memphis it's kind of like that you see, the Memphis Grizzlies.

Speaker 4: 10:46

They talk about grit and grind. You know, memphis is a gritty like, like everybody is trying to really figure things out. You can walk, you can go to Memphis and be like oh man, I'm in Memphis. I just love to be in Memphis, but I visit. I don't live there. I've been gone for over 20 years but I do like to go back home. But but such a remarkable place and I think that it's misunderstood in a lot of ways, one of my favorite things that I like to ask questions about. To people that I expose to Memphis for the first time, they always say you know, I avoided this place, I didn't want to come.

Speaker 3: 11:19

I think media gives Memphis such a hard I don't know the word for it, just experience what the media says the experience would be like to go to Memphis. I think that it's not a fair shake in the media because a lot of times that people think that the crime is just so bad and everything is so bad. But we got crime everywhere.

Speaker 3: 11:45

I mean let's be clear that every city has crime, but you got to go to a city and figure out what is the best. You know things that you can do in the experiences and I think that you, coming out of Memphis, you're a success story. You've done so many great things. So, as a young man, how did you get on the community path?

Speaker 4: 12:13

Well, I will be remiss if I don't mention this thing, even though I grew up in Memphis. My mother is from Tipton County Tipton, okay, and that's just north of Shelby. She's from a little small town called Drummond's, tennessee. You may have heard of Covington. Like that's the big city in Tipton County, but we have about 250 acres there and my grandfather had animals.

Speaker 3: 12:37

So you grew up on a farm.

Speaker 4: 12:39

On the weekends we'd go. I love to see the bulls. Oh wow, you know you see chicken and roosters and you know different animals around. I can't imagine growing up and not being exposed to that Like if you want a peach, just go out there and get it. You know like you want an apple.

Speaker 3: 12:57

And I think kids nowadays they don't get those experiences. Because I know when I was a kid, and probably when you were a kid, you know we rode bikes, we were outside. You know, the biggest thing was my mother used to say don't let the traffic the street lights come on. Yes, and so we enjoy being outside, versus kids nowadays don't enjoy that. But that's what we enjoyed and had a great time, and that was community. Yes, if you think about it, yes, it was.

Speaker 3: 13:28

That was our first building block to community. Right Is your church upbringing and you know when you play sports or when you're in different groups and academics. Tell me what was that like as a kid?

Speaker 4: 13:50

Well, the most apparent one is to start off with church. So I grew up in the CME denomination Christian Methodist, Episcopal.

Speaker 3: 14:00

Okay, I grew up Methodist.

Speaker 4: 14:03

And it's very small, very small church. Actually, before that, this is interesting for this story I go back to the first church I remember was a United Methodist Church and it was, I remember going as a kid and for some reason that church closed and then we joined another church and it was, I think at the time, the first time, a black congregation and a white congregation joined together.

Speaker 4: 14:33

Okay, so that was a unique experience in the probably late 80s, early 90s and it was a very great mix. We ended up going to CME Church after that Christian Methodist Episcopal and that's when I really had the opportunity. I never missed an opportunity to lead the scripture, to lead the prayer. I sang in the choir. My mom was the usher president, so I was on the usher board.

Speaker 3: 15:00

So you were truly involved. Oh, absolutely, she taught Sunday school. Do you remember the usher board when we were growing up? Yeah, usher board was serious.

Speaker 4: 15:07

It's serious.

Speaker 3: 15:07

Yes, kids have no idea. And you know you had to, truly you know behavior had to be on point in church. You didn't talk in church and you didn't get to eat in church either. Right, there was no iPads back then. No, there was not, so I can see my mom right now.

Speaker 4: 15:26

She could just look at you and tell you to straighten up. That's the type of person.

Speaker 3: 15:30

She was Exactly that.

Speaker 4: 15:30

Look and she taught school. So you know, it seemed like the church. Really all the school teachers had to also teach Sunday school so as a result of her teaching, we had to be there too. So we were in church all the time. But I think, even leading up to this point, the reason why I'm comfortable in front of a microphone is because I had those experiences. Like I looked forward to Black History Month because we had to do a report and go before the church and talk about black leaders and what they did, I always looked forward to my Easter speech.

Speaker 3: 16:01

So your parents exposed you at a young age at speaking in front of people. You know, a lot of times we don't realize that we got prepared by things that our parents made us do, that we really didn't want to do at the time and didn't understand why it was important, but it really instilled great things in us before we even knew that. So let me go back a little bit. So you're married.

Speaker 4: 16:30

Yes, and you have children.

Speaker 3: 16:31

What is your wife's?

Speaker 4: 16:31

name. So my wife's name is Tiffany, tiffany. If someone asks me how long we've been married, I always say not long enough. There you go, so that's a good tidbit.

Speaker 3: 16:38

That's a good thing you did real well. Someone shared with me.

Speaker 4: 16:41

A former colleague shared she was like. I heard this amazing person say not long enough. There you go and that's a good answer, but we were married in 2012. So we've been together for quite some time now and, just fantastic, she's a social worker.

Speaker 3: 16:56

Okay.

Speaker 4: 16:57

She works for the Department of Veterans Affairs, and I call her a socialite as well because we do a lot of events in Nashville. She's co-chaired some highfalutin events and we're actually co-chairing an event in a couple weeks at the Skirmishorn Symphony Center, and we also are co-chairing the Library Gala, which is a big deal in Nashville too.

Speaker 3: 17:18

So you married somebody that shared community yes, she's all about community Absolutely. That shared community yes, she's all about community Absolutely. And I think that to me, you have to in marriage. I feel like you have to evolve together and you have to build together To be a community leader. I feel like that. A really great community leader always has, you know, a spouse that is supportive, you know, cheers them on. A gentleman told me years ago, an older gentleman. He said behind every powerful man you'll see a strong woman. And I believe that you know, and vice versa. It's just you got to have a cheerleader and someone that will challenge you. Does your wife challenge you to do more in the community or do certain things in the community?

Speaker 4: 18:10

Well, I wouldn't say that I lack in that area. I think I'm probably overextended.

Speaker 4: 18:17

But I can tell you some things that I've noticed over the years. She claims to be an introvert. I don't know if she is or not, but she says she's an introvert but she really wasn't a person who did a lot of things in the community and so, but she would do things, but she wasn't like on a lot of boards and things like that, but she was great at doing these things. She's like oh, I'm okay, I want to focus on what I'm doing, did you?

Speaker 3: 18:43

help her find her way into that, Because the reason why I'm saying that? Because David was the same way. David is an introvert and he's coming out of that shell and like even now, you know, David is, you know, getting involved in more things, that type thing. But I've literally said I challenge you to do this, or challenge you to find your way in whatever you know is going to make you happy in the community. And I can honestly say David's blood drive really was what opened up for him, because he could relate to that. He knew he needed blood, he knew the community, you know, came and gave blood, donated blood for him, and so David could relate to that and he took off. Is there a thing that you could say, hey, you know, maybe this was the thing that got her to like that.

Speaker 4: 19:36

Well, I would just say that you know, both of us have been in Greek letter organizations for a long time, so public service, so. So like we would get a lot of our volunteer work through that. Right. But I think my favorite moment is I serve on the Convention Center Authority in Nashville, which is a great organization a great board to serve on it's appointed by the mayor and confirmed by the city council.

Speaker 4: 20:06

And the mayor appointed my wife to the sports authority, which is, I was, like man, that's great. Like I mean, convention center is great too, but sports authority like they're building a new Titan stadium, you know, every sport team is a part of the sports authority. So she and she loves sports. So like she looks forward to go into those meetings, like so I think the disconnect for some people is that you may go to a meeting and people may not be nice to you, they may be rude or or the meetings last too long and it may not seem like it's a value, a value add. But I have chaired value add, but I have chaired.

Speaker 4: 20:42

I've probably been on 25 boards over the last 15 years, so I've done multiple boards, but I really like the boards that are, you know, quarterly, because I can, you know, kind of condense it and get the work done and I don't have to go every week or two.

Speaker 3: 21:00

And you feel like you're making an impact, absolutely, but.

Speaker 4: 21:03

I like to drive. I like to drive my work through things I'm passionate about. So, like. For instance, I volunteer at a school just to help mentor fourth grade students who aren't on reading level and come from a zip code in Nashville that if you're born in that zip code, you have a higher likelihood of being incarcerated than anywhere else in the country.

Speaker 3: 21:28

Wow.

Speaker 4: 21:28

So when I look at these kids, I think of myself like I grew up in that type of environment. So, but I had a structured pathway because my mom was a school teacher. So, like I didn't have any big issues on learning things because my mom was there, you're disciplined. And I have older siblings. I'm the baby.

Speaker 3: 21:50

Oh, okay, I am too.

Speaker 4: 21:52

I really think about my. I can remember my oldest sister. She really helped me with a lot of homework. And my mom she poured into a lot of the students. So a lot of times she was like you like go ahead and get your sister to help. But when it was necessary, like with multiplication, I remember that was a tough subject for me. It was hard for me to get that memorized and I even struggled with some long division. But outside of those two things, I've always been great at numbers. So once I mastered it I got much better. So I think about like we think about that when we raise our kids.

Speaker 4: 22:30

We have two kids, alfred III and Chancellor Joelle, and we work with them. We give them extra work to do and instead of being outside playing or just being in the camp, we're going to embed certain things, like when we travel anywhere. Like we spent a week in New York for spring break and of course they like to stay in Times Square. So their experience of going to New York as kids is different than mine when I was growing up. But we got a chance to do just remarkable things and we've been twice with the kids.

Speaker 4: 23:02

But we also built in a visit to guggenheim we built in a visit to the met, like we want to make sure that, even though we're somewhere else, you get to see the arts, you get to see the sciences. We want to make sure that you're exposed to everything. I taught them how to ride the subway, which was a challenge for me because I've always ridden the subway, but I couldn't understand the subway the same way I can understand riding the metro in DC. So now that I understand how to ride it, it's very easy for us to get around. I want them to see that public transit is not a bad thing.

Speaker 3: 23:34

Yes.

Speaker 4: 23:34

Just because we live in a city where it's not as much ridership on the buses doesn't mean that people shouldn't ride the bus Right. You know, the more traffic you have, you think that more shouldn't ride the bus.

Speaker 3: 23:47

Right, you know, the more traffic you have, you think that more people would ride the bus. And Nashville has traffic. We have some traffic Y'all have traffic. And so does Knoxville. Yes, we do, we do.

Speaker 4: 23:53

Kind of at the split where it comes together.

Speaker 3: 23:55

But ours just like really got bad, like in the last three years. You know the one thing about Nashville is y'all's traffic has been that way for a minute but Knoxville's.

Speaker 4: 24:06

You ever been to a UT game? Let me tell you that's some serious traffic too. Yes, it is Getting to the game is.

Speaker 3: 24:15

I hate to say it. It's a fun experience, but once you get there, though, you have a great time and then leaving it's like unbelievable. But I would not give that up for anything. Go Vols. So let's get back to the community part and your leadership. What made you decide to get your doctorate?

Speaker 4: 24:38

Well, I was working at Vanderbilt. I was an associate vice chancellor and I did all the community relations for Vanderbilt and I did all the local government relations. So I was there and I was like, well, I already have a terminal degree. I got my law degree in 2012 and I just kind of felt like I want I always want to be back in education, like I was elementary education major at first and my mom convinced me not to do it. She said I know you're passionate about education, but I want you to get a career that you can make some money, don't? I don't want you struggling like I did.

Speaker 3: 25:11

I bet you she was so proud for you to become an attorney I mean getting your law degree and all that. I bet you she it was like a proud moment, it was absolutely a proud moment for that one, too proud moment for me.

Speaker 4: 25:25

It was absolutely a proud moment for that one too, but I think it was like I learned about adverse childhood experiences when I went through Leadership Tennessee in 2019.

Speaker 4: 25:35

I was like what are ACEs? They kept saying ACEs. I said, what is that? And I started thinking about just the area I grew up in, things that just happened to people. I think, like man, this is kind of crazy that people experience things Like. I lost my father at 14 and it was one of those things where I knew that I could either go and do some things I shouldn't do or I could go and be positive and continue on this trajectory, and I chose that way. But I had positive reinforcements. I have older siblings. My oldest brother was very instrumental in making sure that I stayed on the right track and right path, and so that thing was very important to see that. But to answer your question about that, I asked my mom one day and she said you know, I'm just be honest with you, you turned out a lot better than I expected, just given the adversity that you experienced as a kid and that really touched me and losing your father

Speaker 3: 26:36

at 14 years old, because you could have went down the wrong road very easily. So how long was you at Vanderbilt?

Speaker 4: 26:46

So I worked at Vanderbilt for three and a half years or so a little under four and then I transitioned to Leadership, tennessee, which has been a great thing. But you asked me about education. So one of the fringe benefits of working at a university is that they give you a discount on school. So I was like, well, I already have a terminal degree. But I would like to focus in on something that I'm really passionate about, and I was passionate about government relations too and just being a community person and looking at metrics and how do we lift all boats and focus in on areas.

Speaker 4: 27:19

And Vanderbilt's a great institution, it has rich resources. And a lot of times they'll go into the community and say Vanderbilt's a great institution, it has rich resources. And a lot of times they'll go into the community and say you know, we're not going to come in here with a savior complex. We want to come in and say how can Vanderbilt help the community if you all want help? And that was a very great job, to see how a huge institution like that can go and transform, you know, different communities.

Speaker 3: 27:47

Yes.

Speaker 4: 27:47

In a lot of ways and that really opened my eyes to a lot of things, and I get to see a lot of the same stuff now in this current role as well.

Speaker 3: 27:55

Well, viewers, you know he jumped over this. He said he went through the class. What year of leadership? Tennessee 2019. 2019. That's impeccable for you to become the CEO of a how can I say it? Of a organization that brings community, brings connection. That brings community, brings connection, helps build up your community. You went to that class, came out of that class and God got you into being the CEO.

Speaker 4: 28:36

What was that like? Well, it was interesting because my predecessor is someone that I adore. She did such a great job with Leadership Tennessee.

Speaker 3: 28:45

Let me go back for one second. Was it a goal to be that?

Speaker 4: 28:49

No, it was not. Please tell us how that transpired, go ahead. So my predecessor she sent an email out and the email said you know, I'm basically will be departing from Leadership Tennessee in a few months. And I immediately got on the phone and I was like oh my.

Speaker 4: 29:09

God, kathy. I said what's going on Like this can't happen. You did such a great job at Leadership Tennessee, I can't believe that you're going to leave. She said well, it's so interesting you called me. She said actually, pass your name on to the board chair, somebody who's been active, who participates in everything. And I was like oh, no, it's no way.

Speaker 4: 29:28

I said nope. I said it's no way. I'm pretty sure that this small nonprofit is not going to be able to meet my salary requirements. And I said, well, just let the board chair know I'm not interested.

Speaker 3: 29:43

So a few months went by, so you told leadership Tennessee you was not interested.

Speaker 4: 29:49

I wasn't interested at first. I mean I was interested, but this is a deal.

Speaker 3: 29:52

But you didn't think that they can meet. You know your requirements and you were in a good position.

Speaker 4: 29:58

Right.

Speaker 3: 29:59

At the time. I mean, Vanderbilt was my dream job. It was like it was nothing.

Speaker 4: 30:10

I didn't think I would do anything else outside of that, because I really love doing the work, like, and. But this is what happened. A few months later they had a session in Clarksville, actually at Fort Campbell. Ok, well, we got to shoot machine guns and repel and, you know, get to meet the command in general and I got this. I did one of those activities and I was like, wow, I really miss this. This is, this is something great. I mean, had I not done that, I probably would not have applied for the job. But I was like you know what I miss learning things every single day.

Speaker 4: 30:46

As a government relations person, a lot of the work that I would do on campus would be, you know, figuring out how to reroute alleys and, you know, go before the border zone, appeals things you're probably familiar with and sidewalks and imploding buildings and making sure permits are there. So I mean that nuts and bolts of the government relations piece. I really I could do it with my eyes closed, but I was like you know, I really want to be at the forefront and get a chance to learn things the way that I felt I want to do, and I'd already done statewide work on campaign work, so I'd already been to all 95 counties and I just really enjoyed the assets across the state. Like you go to Knoxville, knoxville is like Knox County is different from the county that's right next door, like as soon as you step across the county it's different.

Speaker 3: 31:42

So, like you think about, all 95 counties.

Speaker 4: 31:43

You have a different issue per county. That's not like your neighboring counties. And then you think about, like just the regional aspect. Like a lot of people don't understand that East Tennessee is more than just Knoxville. Some people think that that's all to East Tennessee. But we have Tri-Cities, is totally different and they have that regionalism thing that happens a lot, I agree you think about to East Tennessee, but we have Tri-Cities, it's totally different and they have that regionalism thing.

Speaker 4: 32:06

That happens a lot, I agree. You think about like going to Memphis and Nashville and Chattanooga and Knoxville and you just really get to learn like these are the things that are happening, this is what's happening that's working well, and here's some things that we need a little improvement. And because my mind is like that I'm always trying to figure out a solution to things, I was like this is a job I want to do. So I applied for it. I probably got my application in very late and I interviewed for it and as soon as I got to the interview I was like set, this is the job I want to do.

Speaker 3: 32:38

So it took you to get to the interview to figure out that that's really what you wanted to do.

Speaker 4: 32:43

Right, that's exactly how it happened.

Speaker 3: 32:46

And so the biggest thing with that is, a lot of times, you know, we never we get things that we never thought about, and I think that's a God thing, because you're sitting here saying is that I was at my dream job, I was happy, you know, everything was going great, but God had a different plan for you, and I think the biggest thing is is that, well, I don't know have you ever done nonprofit before now?

Speaker 3: 33:21

before leadership, not running one, okay, but I've been board chair for several, but it's a difference, it's different, it's totally different. Let me explain this quickly.

Speaker 4: 33:26

Vanderbilt University is a non-profit too, but it's more of a corporate non-profit. When you go from that, I had a pretty decent size staff and I managed four programs. Then you go to a small non-profit where it's only two people. Finally we expanded again to get to three employees again. So all of us do the same work and it takes a special type of leader to understand that. My rule is kind of I always say that I'm not too good to grab a broom and a dustpan, I'm not too good to mop the floors or clean the toilets.

Speaker 3: 34:02

Like, the work has to get done.

Speaker 4: 34:04

And I think that as a leader, you really understand. You have to show your team that you're in the trenches too. I agree, even though I have the title of president and CEO, I handle some social media as well. I work on newsletters, I handle the budget, I work with my board, but I mean all of it's connected, so it's not like one person only does one thing. All of us do everything.

Speaker 3: 34:32

Right, you're a team.

Speaker 4: 34:33

That's a great thing, and we always say this. If my team were listening right now, they're going to be like okay, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. He's about to say we punch above our weight class.

Speaker 3: 34:42

There you go.

Speaker 4: 34:45

And that's what we have to do, and I think we do it well, but there's always room for improvement, no matter what?

Speaker 3: 34:50

So tell the viewers what is Leadership Tennessee?

Speaker 4: 34:53

Okay, well, leadership Tennessee is the premier community leadership program in the state of Tennessee, statewide program. Okay, we're a nonpartisan group of individuals. We convene leaders to take them through an immersive experience where they get to see the different parts of the state and they spend 24 hours or so together in seven pockets of the state in a 10-month period. That's our signature program and it's really not one of those things. It is for established leaders. That's our main program, is the signature program. So you have to be an established leader, so we're exposing them to different parts of the state.

Speaker 4: 35:38

It's not necessarily I'm trying to teach you how to be a leader and I want to run a diagnostic on you and figure out your leadership style. Most people have already done that you how to be a leader and I want to run a diagnostic on you and figure out you know your leadership style. Most people have already done that. Like, you're already a leader before you get there. Now we want to expose you to different things that are working different places, with the ultimate goal of being able to share ideas, because it could be something in Harriman County that you all saw 20 years ago, that you all solved 20 years ago, and then you have, let's say, fayette County in West.

Speaker 4: 36:07

Tennessee, and they may be dealing with the exact same issue that you all solved. So if you get those two people in a room and they connect, then they can say well, let me tell you how we fixed this issue.

Speaker 3: 36:18

Exactly.

Speaker 4: 36:18

And the ultimate goal is to improve our state and we're nonpartisan, we're not political state and we're nonpartisan, we're not political.

Speaker 1: 36:28

It's impossible to not have conversations that are political adjacent Right, but we don't take stances on anything.

Speaker 4: 36:32

The class members are the ones who have those conversations and we take them through that process and we just actually today, a couple hours- ago we graduated class 11, class 11 and we finished in Merville Merville. It's how they pronounce it. We finished there, graduated them today and a few of us went on Blackhawks through Tennessee National Guard and it was a fantastic experience.

Speaker 3: 37:01

I think they flew over my house. I'm sure we did.

Speaker 4: 37:04

So it's a difference in doing that in Paris, tennessee, because the terrain is different. To fly over Neyland Stadium and to see that and to see the TVA building, the UT administration building.

Speaker 3: 37:21

I know that was a great experience.

Speaker 4: 37:22

It was fantastic to see that I didn't realize how many people in Knoxville and surround area had pools. I mean, it seemed like looking down, everybody has a pool here.

Speaker 3: 37:32

But also the water is very important here, like we know it's a lot of people who like that.

Speaker 4: 37:38

The lakes are nice. So I mean, but that's our signature program. Then we have LT Next program, which is our mid-career program which is geared towards.

Speaker 4: 37:47

It's not really an age requirement, but it's typically ages between 25 and 45. And we do embed more leadership principles there. I do a few trainings on change management and how to handle difficult conversations. You know things that would be beneficial that I think I would have had when I was 25 years old, what would have helped me get to the next level. So we that's about half the time. We run two programs a year, so it's four sessions with theirs and it's 30 people that go through that program every six months with theirs, and it's 30 people that go through that program every six months, okay, okay.

Speaker 3: 38:32

So let me ask you this If there's a leader that wants to pivot in their career, at whatever age, what would you say? What advice would you give them If they were in that position, if they wanted to pivot? Because that's basically what you did, right, you were at a job that you truly loved, and you went after a job that you really didn't want at first, but then your desire of it after you came through the interview process of it. That was your dream job too.

Speaker 4: 39:04

Oh, absolutely. I would say that you know I have a strong faith system and you have to pray about things and if you have that relationship, you have access to go on to pray about it. I mean I can I just think about Two things happen sitting in the room. My and I brought it up several times I'm like you know I'm thinking about applying for this job, but I don't know. I said it's just, I can't take that kind of pay cut Thinking about applying for this job. Then I started pivoting to saying you know, I think I would be happy doing this kind of work Again, statewide work.

Speaker 3: 39:47

Did y'all hear what he just said? Happy?

Speaker 4: 39:50

Right, and let me say it, I was happy at Vanderbilt too, but I was like it's a different happiness, and this is the other part, too, that I hope that the listeners will take away from this. I have been a very good number two. I actually think I'm built to be a chief of staff or a number two person because I don't have to be in the front. I love to manage things. Don't take it out of context. I love to be in control of a situation.

Speaker 3: 40:24

If I'm a fourth opportunity, but you're okay with being number two. I love to be in control of a situation if I'm afforded the opportunity, but you're okay with being number two, I love it.

Speaker 4: 40:29

I love for somebody else to have to deal with all that stuff.

Speaker 3: 40:32

Viewers. Did you hear that? That's a strong statement. I don't think I've ever heard anybody explain it that way. You know you hear people say, oh, I don't have to be in the front, I don't have to have the attention, I don't have to be in the front, I don't have to have the attention, I don't have to have this.

Speaker 3: 40:46

But that's not what you're saying. What you're saying is I'm okay being number two, as long as everything works together for our good and everybody around. That's what I'm getting from you is that it's not even about the attention, part of it or whatever. And I do think let's go back a little bit of when you said you've always been a talker, you've always had that gift of gab, and most people think that people that had the gift of gab always wants to be in the front. But a lot of people don't realize is a lot of times we want to step back a little bit, but if we don't got it, it will be dead silence. And I think in your community you've got to have people that are okay with being number two for the greater good, and if they're number one, that's okay too. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 4: 41:39

I'm saying that and I'll say that the buck stops at the person who's in control a lot of the time. So, like when you're number one, you have to fall on the sword, sometimes for your team. Sometimes I mean this is whether I was leading this organization or in other leadership positions. My background has been in politics and in government. I have worked for a lot of elected officials, a lot of great leaders, and so I'm natural with being a number two, because if your name's on the door or you're on the ballot, you're the person who's sacrificing, who's running for office.

Speaker 4: 42:16

I'm the person that's going to make you look good and make your life a little easier.

Speaker 4: 42:21

But the point of the whole story I just gave there is that I just had the desire to just figure out can I lead an organization? I want to know like I know I can do it, but I've never put myself out there because people who know me very well will say he loves a microphone, but let's go back to church. The reason why I love a microphone is because I don't mind welcoming guests. It's not that the attention is on me, it's let's do that. It's not about the attention, I really get uncomfortable.

Speaker 3: 42:49

I think a lot of people don't realize, when you're extrovert, that extroverts get tired of being, you know, that person that is always speaking and all you know what I'm saying. And just because you're good at the microphone doesn't mean that you always want to be on the microphone. And what I'm hearing from you is I'm stepping up and using my voice because I want to make change in my community and I know that I have to be that voice to say, hey, let's work together, Like with your staff. You're sitting here saying, okay, it's three of us now, but we all work together. So if that means I've got to go sweep the floors, that's what needs to be done. We're working together for the team and we're all going to do well at it, and I think a great leader has to be that way is being able to move around where it's needed.

Speaker 4: 43:47

Right.

Speaker 3: 43:48

The biggest thing that I think that leaders have to understand if you're going to be a great leader is it's where you're needed. What do I do when there is something lacking? I have to step up to the plate and be that leader and get it done. That's what I'm hearing from you, and I think a lot of times you need mentors. So my next question to you is what role has mentorship played in your professional journey and how do you continue to pay it forward?

Speaker 4: 44:26

Wow, now that's my favorite question. I mean, I have a personal board of directors that I don't make decisions that impact me without talking to them first, and it tends to be you're going to love this because you're a business owner. People who are business owners. They can make some good decisions because a lot of times the decisions they make impact payroll and somebody else needs so like I love talking to people who are used to that type of pressure because I've never you know, run a business that I created myself.

Speaker 3: 45:00

Right.

Speaker 4: 45:01

Right. So one of my mentors I talked to about this opportunity and she told me. She said, alfred, you would be crazy not to take this opportunity.

Speaker 3: 45:12

I told her. I said thank you.

Speaker 4: 45:14

And I was like well, not that, and I don't want this to come off in case one of my board members thinking like, well, it seems like he didn't want. No, I was skeptical about Because, really, if I'm being, honest like. I always am and I'm going to take it there. I get in trouble for that all the time. I was told by one of my mentors, and she meant well.

Speaker 3: 45:39

Yes.

Speaker 4: 45:40

She told me that I should not apply for this job because Leadership Tennessee would never hire a black person to lead it, and because I've worked for Democrats all of my career, it's no way that an organization like this would really give me a fair shake. And that made me think. And it was no malice or anything. No, she was just being a great mentor, telling me how she felt.

Speaker 3: 46:06

Truly transparent.

Speaker 4: 46:08

Right. No, she was just being a great mentor, telling me how she felt truly transparent, right, and so so when, um, she told me that, I was kind of thinking, oh yeah, well, that that's kind of what. I'm not gonna go after the job but then I talked, but see, that's why you have more than one mentor.

Speaker 4: 46:18

Yes, and what and when I talked to a few other people they were like, oh my god, you should absolutely do it if you can afford to take that kind of pay cut. And it was so interesting because when I sent her the press release as me as a new president and CEO, she called me and said you know what? I was completely wrong and I know that you're going to do an awesome job.

Speaker 3: 46:44

That is a great mentor. Because even a mentor can be wrong.

Speaker 4: 46:47

Absolutely so, moving to paying it forward, when I was a law student in Indiana yeah, I'm a Kappa too, so I went to Indiana University for law school.

Speaker 3: 47:00

Shout out to all the Kappas. Shout out to the Kappas yes.

Speaker 4: 47:03

There was a gentleman there who was the biggest movement shaker in Indiana. I mean for three years I called his office and gotten meetings, set up coffee meetings. I just want to come and just pick his brain about stuff. He was a big lobbyist in the state of Indiana and every time for three years he counseled on me. And. I'm sitting there like I've never had that issue before in Tennessee, because you know I can pretty much get on anybody's calendar in politics because, I have a good reputation for working for good people.

Speaker 4: 47:41

And you worked hard to build your name and this guy never got back to me and I made a promise right then I would never do that to anybody. If somebody wants to meet with me, particularly a young college student- yes. There's no way that I'm going to say no to meeting with someone who could probably get a nugget or two from me.

Speaker 3: 48:01

Yes.

Speaker 4: 48:03

And it may work out that you get a nugget or two from them, like that's kind of how the mentorship thing works Because you can learn from anybody you really can.

Speaker 4: 48:10

And people have great ideas, it doesn't matter how old you are. So, like when I when I decided that I take so many coffee meetings because I can't afford to do lunch meetings with everybody and it's hard to get. It's hard to get an hour, yeah, to like for just you know, randomly. So if I do a speaking engagement and I say about how important it is to network and to talk, then you got to walk the walk you know like. I say connect with me on LinkedIn yes and then let's connect.

Speaker 4: 48:39

At some point I'm like, wow, I'm not able to go to 15 lunches, you know. So I started going to coffee meetings. I don't drink coffee, but I do drink tea.

Speaker 3: 48:50

It's a sacrifice.

Speaker 4: 48:52

And I can afford to buy everybody a cup of coffee. Yes, that's true, you know you can't like. You could really spend a lot of money and you know Nashville, lunch prices are expensive. Knoxville too. Knoxville too, oh, I love.

Speaker 4: 49:04

Gus's, by the way, here. Gus's is great, but I probably would be at Gus's every day if I lived here. But my point is this, right here If I can't give back to someone knowing that I've had some great mentors I mean fantastic mentors then I'm not doing my job. I'm not doing what. I think that that's disgraceful for you to benefit from someone who's poured into you and you be unwilling to pour into somebody else.

Speaker 3: 49:38

I'll tell you this. I believe there's two types of people givers and takers. And you chose not to be a taker. You chose okay, I was fed, but now it's my time to feed. That's basically what you're saying, because it's like you had mentors. That has built you up. What would it be like if you didn't feed someone else, if you didn't open that door for some young person that was just like you? Why say I want to make a difference if all I'm doing is taking? Do you agree with that?

Speaker 4: 50:19

Well, I definitely agree with that. So, like this, this is the let me give. Oh, this is perfect. I had a lunch meeting the other day with a dear friend and he said something that stood out. He said I'm so glad that we're able to have lunch. He said I'm impressed with you. He's a little older than I am, but he said I want to start this lunch meeting now lunch meeting by asking you what can I do to help you. I want to start this lunch meeting by asking you what can I do to help you? He said, because every time I've interacted with you over the past couple of years, you go out of your way to help others.

Speaker 4: 50:54

And he said this young brother goes out of his way to help everybody and it's a selfless act. So what can I do to help you? And that really I mean those comments you don't get that often. That was even better than him doing anything for me.

Speaker 3: 51:07

Exactly, just to get the acknowledgement.

Speaker 4: 51:09

Yes, and what I'll say. Like the other part that's similar to it. A gentleman called me one day and I answered the phone and I said, hey, what's going on? And we talked for about five, seven minutes and I said to him. I said, all right, now we've talked. I said what can I do to help you what you need? He said I was just calling to say hello, I don't need anything.

Speaker 3: 51:36

But you wasn't used to that.

Speaker 4: 51:37

I said but you know, I'm just wired to always try to help somebody and I realized at that moment that I need to unwire and not think that just because somebody's calling me that they need something. But in the role that I'm in, a lot of people call me when they need something Correct. So I got to learn how to just have a little more discernment and you got to learn how to receive. Yes.

Speaker 3: 52:06

I'll tell you this the best thing to me is being a giver. I find joy in it, I love to see people smile, I love to make a difference. But the biggest thing my pastor and my husband had to pour into me Ivanka, you don't know how to receive. And so I would say to my pastor I'm like, yes, I do, and he goes no, you don't. He said because it makes you feel uncomfortable. He said, when people want to give to you, you don't know how to receive. And so when he said that, coming for my husband, coming for my pastor, I was like it does make me feel uncomfortable. Now, part of it.

Speaker 3: 52:52

I wasn't exposed to that for a long time. People didn't pour, you know, and so sometimes when you get the phone calls, like what you were talking about is that you're in a position that people are constantly calling you because they need something. So it wasn't, you probably didn't. It didn't feel normal to you that they need something. So it wasn't, you probably didn't. It didn't feel normal to you that they were just calling to check on you.

Speaker 4: 53:12

They didn't need anything from you, and so let me clarify this thing quickly, though, like the need something could be hey, I'm looking for somebody's number, or like it's not always like that what you're saying is just needing something out of you.

Speaker 3: 53:27

You know that you have to. You know you're asking to be you, to give something, and I'll say this to you learn how to receive and be okay with it, and I'll tell you at the beginning of receiving. It will make you feel so uncomfortable it still makes me uncomfortable, but you give a lot. When I started researching you because you were recommended to me that you would be a good interview, the person spoke and said this would be a good interview because all that he does for others OK. When I started researching you and reading all the different things that you have accomplished, it was like wow, looking at your age versus what you've accomplished. It was like wow, looking at your age versus what you've accomplished. You know you've had to give something your time, so it's time for you to receive. I hope you can take this from me.

Speaker 4: 54:39

I appreciate that.

Speaker 3: 54:41

Oh God, use me. It's time for you to be rewarded in a spiritual way that God wants for you to see your works. You don't accomplish all of that, alfred I'm talking to you as a friend right now. You don't accomplish all of that without a reward season. It's time for you to open your heart to your reward season and for you to be able to see that everything that you've done, it was in God's plan and it was for God to give you that reward season and it is your season. Hear me when I tell you you're going to call me and you're going to tell me do you remember?

Speaker 3: 55:29

this on the podcast, Because you can't do that much work for the body of Christ and not have a reward season. Allow yourself to receive and allow yourself to see that he has so much more for you. But you have to open your heart up to that. And Leadership Tennessee is a path that you're going down. But you're touching so many people in Leadership Tennessee that probably has never said, hey, you just speaking to me that day, acknowledging me that day or, you know, making me feel good, you could have saved somebody's life, you could have stopped a lot of things just by speaking to them. Right? So when you go back into leadership, when you leave here, I'll say this to you is open your heart for your reward season and understand that his plan is so great.

Speaker 4: 56:31

Bless you. Bless you.

Speaker 3: 56:32

Mm, hmm, my next question when the spirit of the Lord comes in, it moves me to speak. In your life, he's got so much great things for you. How do you stay grounded with your values while advancing your professional across a diverse industry?

Speaker 4: 57:01

Well, you know it's so interesting. You ask that question because I think about my upbringing a lot and you know I didn't miss any meals but it was a struggle quite a bit, but one of the best experiences. I didn't think it was a great experience at the time. My grandfather owned a roofing company, so I would go on roof houses with him on, you know, on weekends and over the summer, and you got to wake up at like four o'clock in the morning. You know he'd be all over the Mississippi Delta and I started out picking up the debris after they take the pitchforks and take the shingles off, and my job early as a small kid was to go and pick up all the debris and throw it on the back. Then I eventually made it to you know, carrying shingles up the ladder and driving nails.

Speaker 4: 57:57

So one thing that I loved about that experience I'll tell you what I loved about it and I'll tell you what I didn't like about it. I love the fact that he would pay me $100 every single time. If you're like 7-8 years old picking up shingles and you go out for a few hours, here's $100 and he's going to buy you breakfast and he's going to buy you lunch and he's going to give you $100. He did that. What I didn't like is I get home and my sister would be around and he'd say come over here, little baby girl, here's $100 for you too. And I've never appreciated it, even if my sister's listening right now Because you didn't understand it.

Speaker 3: 58:39

I'm like, you know what You're like. I had to pick up shadows, yeah and you get the same $100.

Speaker 4: 58:44

Yeah, and you get the same $100. But now that I'm older, I got to spend time with them and I got to learn that he said son, I don't want you to be a roofer, I want you to know how to do it in case you can't find a job and you need something. He said but this is hard work. We talked about how hot it was in Memphis by 11 o'clock. It's already 110 degrees on the roof. It's hot outside.

Speaker 4: 59:09

Yes, and if you've got to put tar up there, you're trying to fill a hole or something to fix a roof. That's hard work and I got to experience hard work at an early age like that and I knew I'd never want to be a roofer.

Speaker 3: 59:26

Right.

Speaker 4: 59:27

But I liked to see the amount of money he would get paid.

Speaker 3: 59:30

He would carry so much, and he taught you work ethic.

Speaker 4: 59:32

He taught me work ethic. And one thing I'm most proud of my grandfather for. He was very colorful. I won't give you many details about his background, but I saw him transition from having a full black staff to Latinx community and one thing he told me was he said, son, I'm going to pay them the same price, the rate that I pay my other employees. He said I can't understand what they're saying. He always thought they would talk about it. I'm like, granddaddy, they're not talking about you.

Speaker 3: 1:00:05

My mother used to say the same thing. He said they're talking about it. I'm like granddaddy, not talking about you. My mother used to say the same thing. He said they're talking about me. Why are they talking?

Speaker 4: 1:00:10

I said granddaddy not talking about you but he said it's important for me to pay them the same fair rate because I would want somebody to pay me the same fair rate. I want my grandson to get a fair rate, you know. So like I got to see that early and I really like it was just good bonding, yes, I think.

Speaker 3: 1:00:33

Another thing your grandfather. Between you and your sister, nothing against her, but I'm just telling you, me and my brother. My brother would get away with murder. Okay, my mother. Now that's a figure of speech y'all, but let me just go and clarify that part. He would get away with so much stuff, but my mother was so hard on me and it would bother me at times I wouldn't like how's he getting away with all this? But you're making me do all of this and it took me to get older to see. My mother saw what was in me and so she challenged that part of me.

Speaker 3: 1:01:20

And I think your grandfather saw what was in you and it was like, if I can teach him work ethic, if I can teach him a plan B for whatever size you know I don't want him to be a roofer, but you know, here's a trade that you could do if nothing else works out. I think he saw something in you that you didn't see in yourself at the time. And, thinking back to that, think about it. You're now showing other people work ethic. You're showing other people how to be a leader. You're showing other people how to have a voice and have an opinion and believe in something, stand on it.

Speaker 3: 1:02:01

You know we had a conversation off camera. I was just trying to get to know Alfred and what stuck out to me is you want people to be considered and you don't care what race it is, you want everybody to be considered, absolutely. You know, and that's what I took from our off the camera conversation and being in leadership, tennessee and being over that, I know that you have all walks of life in your class. What could you say that your biggest thing that you want them to take away after that 10 months, if they could pick one thing that you taught not your team teaching them what's the one thing that you'd want that class to get from you? And that may be a hard question.

Speaker 4: 1:02:58

I don't think it's necessarily a hard question, because it's a lot of examples that I could share.

Speaker 3: 1:03:05

Yes.

Speaker 4: 1:03:06

But I want people to walk away from their program year understanding that the system is perfectly designed to produce what it produces. Okay, so there aren't easy solutions to anything Like. I don't think that we'll ever solve poverty. I don't think we'll ever get rid of homelessness.

Speaker 3: 1:03:28

No.

Speaker 4: 1:03:29

And when I chime in and I'm not a negative person, but I think that the way the system is created, there will always be people who don't have a lot and it's going to always be people who have a lot Speak on it. So how do we? I feel like we're going to be judged 50 years from now by how we treat the people who are homeless, how we treat people with mentally ill, how we treat people who are incarcerated. I feel like they're going to say how come someone didn't step up and say that this is wrong? But but the time is going to tell with that, because you just you never know. And I was thinking of one. I call them Floydisms because my grandfather's name is Floyd, but he would always say if you do good, good will follow you, and that's probably the best advice that I've ever received, because he would. He never missed an opportunity to say that.

Speaker 4: 1:04:23

And when people go this program, I want them to see all the good that's happening, but also understand that bad and I'm not saying people are bad, I'm saying there are certain things that are occurring that are bad, things that we can improve and make our state a better place. Like I'm a Rotarian, I'm a proud Rotarian. I said today at Closing Retreat. I said look what Rotary stands for service above self is exactly what I'm looking for in people to go through our program, like everybody who goes through Leadership. Tennessee should want to improve our state. If you don't want to improve our state, then I don't want you to be a part of our membership.

Speaker 3: 1:05:11

Don't take up a seat.

Speaker 4: 1:05:12

Don't take up a seat I tell people this about.

Speaker 3: 1:05:15

you've probably heard multiple people say I want a seat at the table. I want a seat at the table. I heard one guy say I want to own the table and I'm like. So owning the table? That means that it's only your opinion, okay, seat at the table. If you're not. If you're, if you take up a seat at a table but you are not giving anything in that seat, you're a taker. You've got to be able. If you get a seat at the table, it is our duty to work together with everybody at that table to try your best for the greater good. Now, I'm not saying that's easy. It's not easy because personalities are there.

Speaker 3: 1:06:02

People come from different walks of life and people get stuck in the way they believe things to be. I can give leadership Knoxville this. I went through that program and there was even things that I felt like I knew it to be this way. But being in that class and hearing other people's perspective on the same subject, it opened my eyes to things, alfred. It changed my thought on things that's in my community and it even showed me about a lot of things in Knoxville I didn't even know existed and I live here, you know, so that was a good thing. My takeaway was I learned more about Knoxville and surrounding counties. I learned that I may believe something to be this way, but listen to other people's perspective on something. It might teach you something you know and you. It doesn't mean that you're wrong. It may just you wasn't exposed to know it to be any different. You know so I think that Exposure is key.

Speaker 3: 1:07:13

It is and you have to want to be exposed because some people it's like I'm good where I'm at. How can you be good? Because if you're still on earth, you got work to do. If you're still on earth, you know God is expecting you to do some things and so you have to do for your community and you're going all the way across the state. So what can you say? How do you approach? Bringing together leaders from across rural and urban Tennessee to create solutions is my question.

Speaker 4: 1:07:44

Well, you bring them to the table and you can't assume that they know everything, and that's one thing that I've had to deal with in my career. I've worked with a lot of elected officials. Like I've told you, I've worked with some very wealthy people before.

Speaker 4: 1:07:59

And just because you're an elected official doesn't mean you're the smartest person in the room. Just because you have a billion dollars doesn't mean you're the smartest person in the room. Just because you have a billion dollars doesn't mean you're the smartest person in the room. That's why you have those support systems around you. I never want to be in a group of people where I'm the smartest person. I don't either Because if I'm the smartest person, then that means I'm not learning anything.

Speaker 3: 1:08:19

Nothing.

Speaker 4: 1:08:20

And so, to answer your question, we may have a person who works in agriculture. I love a session that we had before recently. I guess around this time last year, there was a guy who came in and was talking about AI, but he was talking about AI in terms of agribusiness and how they're using technology to plant seeds so they can flourish a lot better than just throwing it down there. I'm sitting there like man, this is crazy.

Speaker 4: 1:08:49

Like you're using this technology, like I drive by corn stalks, drive by, you know you might see soybean, they're growing soybean or something you know what. Like in Memphis you see cotton a lot. But if you know that they're using technology to yield more like, why not use technology to help you have more, so like.

Speaker 3: 1:09:08

But I think people get scared, especially like the AI thing. I think a lot of people get scared of the unknown, right. You know, and let's be honest, none of us like change, because change can feel uncomfortable at times, but you can't grow if you don't have any change that comes. You're going to be stagnant. That's where you're going to be and I think that a lot of times now, granted, I can say that with change, we all want to be protected, we all want security, and that's what sometimes we get scared of is if this change comes, am I going to still feel protected and feel secure? But I think that surrounding yourself with people like minded people that are trying to do great change for all, I think that's the key to it. Do you agree with that?

Speaker 4: 1:10:05

Oh, I absolutely agree with it. I mean, I don't know if you saw me light up a second ago. I'm like a change management guru. I do a lot of teaching on change management.

Speaker 4: 1:10:15

And the reason why I do it is because the jobs I've had, I've had to respond to change. And the reason why, if I've been successful, is because I'm adaptable. I know how to adapt to change. When you're stuck in one area and that's all you know, then that's going to be a sad thing. One of my other mentors I have a few of them he always says there's a difference between 20 years experience and one year experience, times 20. I want people to catch that.

Speaker 4: 1:10:45

Say it one more time there's a difference between 20 years of work experience and one year of experience times 20. So if you're doing the exact same thing in year one for 20 times, you hadn't grown. That's not 20 years experience. So, like when I think about bringing I'm going to come back to the question when I think about bringing people into the same room and to share how they feel about certain things, because I talked briefly about politics earlier, but let me explain a little better.

Speaker 3: 1:11:17

Go ahead.

Speaker 4: 1:11:21

Education is not political, but the way we do education is highly political. Say that one more time Education is not political. It should not. Not political, but the way we do education is highly Say that one more time.

Speaker 3: 1:11:29

Education is not.

Speaker 4: 1:11:30

It should not be political because we're talking about how we educate our students. It should not be political, but how we do education is political because there are different standpoints on how you know, how it's applied. So we could take any subject, like when you bring politics into something, it can make it worse. You know and I'm I used to be a political junkie I still dibble and dabble and follow what's going on, but I can't get caught up in. You know what's going on with the media, right?

Speaker 4: 1:12:03

You're only here here in one side of the story sometimes. You are.

Speaker 4: 1:12:08

And that's one thing, that kind of. That's why I teach when. I particularly love talking to high school students because they're going to make a decision, like juniors and seniors, they're going to make a decision in a couple of years that's going to impact the rest of their lives. So I like to talk to them and say come on, let's think about what you really want to do and how you want to do it. Do you like? Because there's this big argument right now about whether it's a return on investment to go to college. And when I'm talking to students they're like well, I don't know if I'm going to go to college. Well, guess what? College isn't for everybody.

Speaker 3: 1:12:38

It's not.

Speaker 4: 1:12:39

And you know I don't want to force college down somebody's throat, but I say, if I were a betting man, I bet on going to get an education because I can show you the data If you have a four-year degree, you're going to make this much more money than someone who has a high school diploma and every time you get another degree. But the misnomer is this because the smartest people I think I'm a smart guy, like I'm I'm I think I'm a smart guy, but I have way more common sense than I have book sense and sometimes people have all the book sense and like, wow that person's

Speaker 4: 1:13:17

smart, but they can't do simple tasks. So I feel like I have a better approach to things because I I come at it from where I'm strong with. I'm very good on having a common sense approach to things, because I come at it from where I'm strong with. I'm very good on having a common sense approach to things, because I feel like I have my finger on the pulse and I can kind of think well, this is not going to work, I can't see that working out. I'm very logical. I try to think things through to this logical conclusion. Some people will just think through to the halfway point and give up. No, I want to think all the way through to the end, I think common sense.

Speaker 3: 1:13:49

Honestly, I would rather have common sense than book sense Because I feel like with book sense and you can say I'm wrong, we can agree or disagree but I feel like book sense. If you study a book long enough, okay, you're going to gain knowledge from that book. But common sense, either you got it or you don't, and common sense can get you through some things you spoke about you know. You know people being smart. Okay, there's a lot of people that have every degree there is, but that's not what got them where they needed to be. I think opportunity. You can be less than smart, but if you are put in a room with opportunity, you can do anything with the right opportunity.

Speaker 3: 1:14:44

Oh yeah, you know what I'm saying, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:14:46

Yeah, you know what I'm saying. It doesn't mean just oh well, you've got to be this smart because there are so many millionaires, billionaires. Whatever you want to say is If you talk to them. I think President Barack Obama said it best. He was like don't go in a room of people that you think is all smart and think that you're dumb. He said, because a lot of times you can go in that room and you're the smartest one in there, but because you just using your common sense on different topics and you help the people that you thought was smart, you help them solve some of the biggest problems. I agree with that.

Speaker 4: 1:15:28

Yeah, I mean, because that's what teams are made of. Like you got to have people who think differently from you. If you're around people who think identical to you, you're not going to grow, you're not going to reach your full potential. And you know it's hard to explain that to kids because it's you know kids in middle school and you know it's silly. But you have to figure out a way to understand that what you do now will impact things later. Like I didn't have social media when I was growing up. Social media came out when I was a college student, you know, and you had to be in college to get on Facebook. But I'm so grateful because all of us had fun in college, right.

Speaker 3: 1:16:12

Yes.

Speaker 4: 1:16:12

You know so I wouldn't want my college career. You know, with people cell phones watching. You know people make mistakes all the time and do things that they're not proud of. I'm glad we didn't have that piece.

Speaker 3: 1:16:25

I'm glad we didn't either, because there have been a lot of things exposed that we wouldn't want to be exposed, you know. So that that's I agree with you there. When it comes to young people, what would you tell young people of today of becoming a leader? What would you say if you were in a room of young people? What advice would you give them about becoming a leader? Because a lot of times when you're young let's be honest, when you're young, that's not something you really want to be, because you don't know the value of being a leader. Do you agree?

Speaker 4: 1:17:01

I would say that I always call myself the accidental leader. Uh-huh I always call myself the accidental leader.

Speaker 4: 1:17:09

I had good grades in school, so my peers in high school voted me to be class president. I didn't. I'm like, well, I'm thinking in my head why do you want me to be class president? Just because I do my homework, you know like. But what happened was I was placed in a lot of situations where I had to lead and because of that it helped me become a better leader and, like, I did a program in Memphis called Bridge Builders which was transformational and it's very similar to Leadership Tennessee.

Speaker 4: 1:17:37

But they pick five to seven students from every high school, starting in 10th grade. At least at that time that's how they did it. I think they've expanded. But they pick five people from public and private high schools and then they take them through a monthly. They have to go to meetings every month. Then you have a week long.

Speaker 4: 1:17:56

We did a week at the University of Memphis. I had a roommate who was the first Jewish person I'd ever met. We got a chance to talk about our faith and our values and all that chance to talk about our faith, you know, and our values and all that. And then the next year we went to Ole Miss for a week, but, like I knew so many people across the city of Memphis who were my age and that was one of those ethereal experiences where we were only put together to break down stereotypes. That was the whole premise back then. We got to break down stereotypes because at the time, and maybe even today, there may have been some racial tensions in Memphis. So that experience opened up my eyes more than anything up until that point, because I got to see, wow, those kids in this private school they're reading things that's not on our summer reading list and even if it is a summer reading list, I might or might not read it, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:18:54

Right.

Speaker 4: 1:18:55

But I was smart enough to be able to catch on and pay attention. But I would tell the kids to answer your question Read, read, read.

Speaker 4: 1:19:06

If you see someone who you think is a leader or somebody who's doing something positive. Figure out their story, find out their why. How did they become who they are? Something happened in their life where they got to the end of the road and it was a fork in the road. They could either go to the left or the right, and they chose which direction to go. In a row, they could either go to the left or the right and they chose which direction to go. Why'd they choose that? That's why I read a lot of nonfiction and biographies and memoirs, because I want to know man, this person's a great leader. What happened in their life?

Speaker 3: 1:19:44

How did it get them there? What made them become what they are today? Yes, and I think, this generation. I will say this I speak a lot out in the community and I hear a lot of young people say well, your, your generation is so hard on us. Your generation speaks down to us. You know, what would you say to young people? Of giving them the fight to keep going? Because what I speak is we all had to find our way. You see us now, you see my generation now. But we had to find our way, just like you're going to find your way. And I always try to speak life in young people and let them understand. Is you know what? We didn't have it all figured out. We did not know. We had to make some mistakes, just like they're making mistakes and they're going to figure it out, just like we had to figure it out. But I tried to speak life in them instead of tearing them down. What would you say to people of today? What should they be saying to young people?

Speaker 4: 1:20:56

First you got to do something like I talked to. I've spoken to a few Jack and Jill groups and I'm friends with their parents and they they call me and say man, I don't know how are you able to resonate with my kids? They don't really like that Because nobody wants to listen to their parents.

Speaker 3: 1:21:15

That's the truth.

Speaker 4: 1:21:16

So that's number one. But if they come in and I'm going to keep it raw with them I'm going to tell them things that and you could say the exact same thing their parents say, but they're going to take it from you before they'll take it from their parents.

Speaker 3: 1:21:27

But we did the same thing.

Speaker 4: 1:21:29

We did the same thing. We did. It kind of blows my mind that I didn't know. It kills your impression. I say this to my mom a lot. I was like you know, we talk every day, my mom and I talk every day, that's awesome. I always say to her like all my cousins, I always loved Aunt Trish, you know, aunt Pat, you know I always loved Aunt Trish. You know, aunt Pat, you know they call her different things Aunt Patricia, and I was like, but man, you were tough on us and I said but now, like you actually are pretty cool, yeah, and she was like it took you this long to realize that, yes, you know, but like Like you had to grow up and become an adult, right, you know?

Speaker 4: 1:22:03

Because I grew up in an era where you're not friends with your parents. I'm not your friend. That's kind of how it's different between saying we don't want to talk to you. That's different. I didn't grow up in a household where they were fighting for my no, our roles were established. Very much so.

Speaker 3: 1:22:23

You're the child, they're the parent.

Speaker 4: 1:22:26

You do as I say, not as you please. Exactly that's what I heard and I raise my kids that way.

Speaker 3: 1:22:31

I mean I raise my kids. I do believe a kid does have an opinion, in a respectful way they can say you know what their opinion of something is. But I do think you, a lot of people, need to establish the role they are and then do I think you can be friends with your kids. I think when they become an adult and they become responsible, then there's where you can like with me and Adrian. Me and Adrian is a real estate team, okay, and Adrian, when she first came to work for me, she doesn't work for me now. We're partners now.

Speaker 3: 1:23:08

But when she first came on the team she worked for me and I said to Adrienne we have to go from mother and daughter to now I'm your employer and you got to take, you know, be able to allow me to delegate to you, you know. But at the same time I had to realize is, you know, once we cut off and all that kind of stuff, we can have a friendship as long as we both respect it. Now, three years in, because Adrian was my assistant at the time Three years in, adrian said I want to be a partner. What does that look like, mom? I don't want to be your assistant anymore. And at first I'm like what do you mean? You don't want to be my assistant, cause it felt like you were happy though.

Speaker 3: 1:23:52

Yes, I was happy, but it felt like you know what do you mean? But then that shift, it took God to show me she's outgrown that position. You should be happy, you should, you know, and, and she can share the responsibility, and so I think that a lot of times people don't get that. Is that okay? There's a time and a place for everything.

Speaker 3: 1:24:18

And I think young people need to understand that, because some out here say some of the craziest things to their parents and I'm like what? Because you know we wouldn't have got away with that.

Speaker 4: 1:24:26

No, there's no way I didn't have that. Nor would I even fix my lips to say it was the respect. It was kind of like my dad would always say. He'd say, boy, when you finally come to, you're going to be looking at me from the ground.

Speaker 3: 1:24:41

So that's kind of how he would talk, and you know that I brought you in this world let me answer this question.

Speaker 4: 1:24:45

Cause I want to make sure that cause this is so important. The kids. Like I try to relate with kids. My ministry are black males. I want to make sure that they see like I love what the hundred black men in middle Tennessee is doing, like I'm a member of the organization and we have 100 kings and we take them through, starting in the fifth grade through 12th grade and we have some collegiate scholars as well.

Speaker 4: 1:25:20

But, like I love how they get to see all of these incredible leaders who are at the top of their game every single month and get to spend time with them, and leaders that look like them. Yes, and that's important, I think to my viewers.

Speaker 3: 1:25:35

I would say this and I say this all the time it's no takeaway from you. When a black person says I want to be the example, Like he just said, basically it's a column in his life, he wants to mentor black males, that doesn't mean that he doesn't care for the opposite rates of males. It's just saying his calling and his area expertise. He's chosen to go down this road, but it doesn't take from anyone else, Because I don't think I can resonate with it.

Speaker 3: 1:26:10

You get what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, and our sons and daughters. You know I don't know if you know this I have a black child and I adopted a white child. It was an employee of mine's sister and I adopted my son and it's wonderful and I show my black child. You know, there is a lot of good in our race. I show my white child there's a lot of good in his race but there's bad in both.

Speaker 3: 1:26:44

But I will say is that more black men need to see more men like you? They need to see you can make it. You know, I've had this conversation with my son. I said there will never be a day that you walk out of this house that you have to worry about not coming back in. I said but your sister is a different situation and I think when the world realizes it's different. As a black man you know my husband is a real estate appraiser. He's had guns pulled on him. All kinds of different things has happened to David throughout his career as a black man, you know. So I look up to you saying my calling is is to show some black men they can make it. So my question is how. How do you reach them?

Speaker 4: 1:27:44

Well, I think like the hundred black man is one of those good things that you can. They're already there and I mentioned those students that I mentor at the school. Kind of the reason why I love to do that is because you know a lot of the kids and I'm not saying this the whole thing but a lot of kids who go through the 100 Kings program. They come from two parent households. They they parents. Some of them have terminal degrees and like, like a lot of those students are going to be just fine.

Speaker 3: 1:28:14

Right.

Speaker 4: 1:28:14

But like when I go to this zip code, like it's not that way. It's not the same and and I think that we can do all it's like a both end. But you it's kind of like having multiple kids. You love your kids the same, but you got to love them differently. Like having multiple kids.

Speaker 3: 1:28:30

You love your kids the same, but you gotta love them differently and it's okay, it's okay I'm so glad you just said that you can love your kids differently and that doesn't mean you love one more than the other. It's just the loves are different right and it's okay and you know what.

Speaker 4: 1:28:43

You know what you need and, like I know, I was treated differently than my siblings in a lot of ways. Um, simply because I just I could do the work, but I didn't. I didn't want to really have to study, I could just go in and, naturally, do pretty well on tests.

Speaker 4: 1:29:00

And when I was so like you can't come home with the B when I know you're capable of making A's Like so we would go through and look at. From the time I can remember look at report cards. My dad said hey, you proved to me that you can make an A in this class. You can't come in with a C.

Speaker 3: 1:29:20

Yeah, I was raised the same way.

Speaker 4: 1:29:22

So like those are things that we have to do and see, I like to talk to students about things that they normally wouldn't talk about. So like it's not uncommon for you to go in somewhere and this little kid asks you how much money you make.

Speaker 3: 1:29:37

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:29:38

You know and I tell them the hourly rate.

Speaker 3: 1:29:40

They don't know how to calculate it. No, you know, because I know how to calculate it because I'm in the HR department.

Speaker 4: 1:29:46

I know how to like multiply the number of times the hourly rate and they give you your annual pay. But like I really think that is so important for kids to just see positivity, because you just never know. I always go in with a positive mindset when I get there because, you know, even if I'm having a bad day, no one would ever know I'm having a bad day because I don't carry things into other situations.

Speaker 3: 1:30:14

And I try not to have bad days and you got to make sure your mood. Is not you projecting negative, being pessimistic? I truly believe. My parents told me that if you go in things positive, most likely it's going to come out positive. And just because you may be having a bad day, because we all have, ok. But why project that on someone else? Right? Why, you know? Because that could be the very day that you're projecting that. It could really truly make some damage of you how you project it on someone else.

Speaker 4: 1:30:52

And so we got to have the emotional intelligence to know the difference, and a lot of people lack that. We talked about common sense and book sense, but then the other one is the emotional intelligence to know the difference.

Speaker 3: 1:31:02

Like you don't have to say everything that comes to your mind, you know you understand why he's the CEO of leadership, because he is telling you, as a leader, that you don't have to literally tell everything you feel and bring that on someone and you've got to pick your battles.

Speaker 4: 1:31:22

Or tell people what you don't know. That's another part that you can get from just understanding. I grew up in 3127 in Fraser in Memphis, in a rough area, but I understood politics. I learned politics a long time ago, in high school. And how I learned politics in high school was because I met the previous police chief, years ago at least, when I was in school. I can't remember his name, but I met him in Memphis. He asked me what high school I went to and I told him he said we develop our gang task force off of your high school. He said y'all had every gang and you had these neighborhood cliques inside the school, so you never knew what was going to happen and, like I, walked through male detectives every single day.

Speaker 3: 1:32:05

Right.

Speaker 4: 1:32:09

Every single day metal detectors at school. But because I would help people with their homework, no matter who they were affiliated with, and I would go out of my way to try to teach concepts. A lot of guys were like, hey, he's safe, don't bother him. And I even went back years later and one of my guys he's a barber and he said man, he said we always knew you were going to be somebody. We always knew you were different than us. I said I grew up in the same area, but we knew that you had a higher trajectory than we had.

Speaker 3: 1:32:45

Because you speak with passion. I haven't even known you this long, but you speak with passion. I ain't even known you this long, but you speak with passion and what you believe and you really care about Tennessee.

Speaker 4: 1:32:58

And I also knew this too. I knew that my parents, they didn't play.

Speaker 3: 1:33:04

Well, you had a mother that was a teacher, so I know she didn't play Right.

Speaker 4: 1:33:06

and if somebody said, hey, we're going to go do this. I said, oh no, I'm out Because you knew, I already knew. So I mean, but like you know, a lot of the things, and this is probably for the next iteration of this whenever we do it?

Speaker 3: 1:33:19

Yes, but a lot of things happened inside the household. It did.

Speaker 4: 1:33:27

And if you have, I guess my point I'm trying to make is when you have parents that are paying attention to what you have going on and you can talk to them, how your race will leave from outside that house and follow you everywhere you go.

Speaker 3: 1:33:41

I agree.

Speaker 4: 1:33:42

Like I knew, it was certain things I wasn't going to do, and if I did do it I was going to suffer consequences.

Speaker 3: 1:33:47

And I try not to do it Because your parents was an example for you, exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:33:49

And I try not to do it Because your parents was an example for you Exactly, but I try not to do that with our kids. We try to make sure that you know it's okay to express your feelings, like we couldn't do that growing up, no, like so.

Speaker 3: 1:34:01

But I want to make sure you remember when I was talking about the opinion thing and I had to you know, me and David had to talk this over in our marriage is that David was brought?

Speaker 4: 1:34:15

up, like me and you, that, whatever they said, control and command.

Speaker 3: 1:34:17

Okay, and so I had to get David to understand. Is you know what? Yes, we're the parents. Yes, we make the last call, but it's okay for a kid to have an opinion if they're speaking in a respectful way. I don't think it's anything wrong with a kid saying you know, hey, mom, can you just think about this? But when we were growing up you couldn't do that. You know, whatever they said went and it was like okay, but how am I going to express if you never allow me to express?

Speaker 3: 1:34:52

So you've got all these young people that are out here. We want them to express and we want them to do all these great things, but if their parents never allow them to express, we as mentors we're as leaders have to be the one to teach them that their opinion matters, their feelings matter, and they have to say and they can't speak just happiness all the time. You have to be able to speak about what you're going through and I think in what you do for a living and what you do in your community, you're given a voice. You know you're given a voice to so many people that the parents never gave. So I would say to you is hats off to you for that. Keep going at that. What would you say? Tennessee needs more than anything. We're almost about to wrap this up.

Speaker 4: 1:35:48

So, now, these are some the next couple questions well, I'll say one thing that I've noticed just from having these conversations across the state with top leaders education permeates everything. So if you talk about economic development, education is attached to it, because if you want to have economic development, people have to have places to send their kids to school.

Speaker 3: 1:36:15

Correct.

Speaker 4: 1:36:15

I mean we talk about the prison system. If people aren't reading on grade level, then they're illiterate, then that's kind of a direct pipeline to prison. So like we can talk about any bad thing or any topic, education always permeates it and if we get that right, I think, our state is doing a better job with education than it was 50 years ago.

Speaker 4: 1:36:41

So, but, but I think that that's something that we can't take our eye off the ball. I also kind of think that I mean because you're asking about some of the challenges, right, right, I would say just the amount of people who are moving here, you know, yeah, I mean, which is a beautiful thing. I was with. I heard the governor speak recently and he made a comment that I didn't know, but this is apropos of the work that you do. He said that every hour, tennessee is losing 10 acres of farmland to development, and that's a threat to what Tennessee is known for.

Speaker 4: 1:37:31

we're so like we can't just let everybody come in here, move and we build, because then we're going to lose one of our most natural assets.

Speaker 3: 1:37:39

Tennessee, for one, is about families. Tennessee is about home ownership okay, but right now there's been so many different big developers or big hedge funds that come in and buy up property and is making it be more rentals than homeownership. And Tennessee, this is a state that we teach homeownership For a first-time homebuyer. I will tell you, it's kind of difficult right now for a first-time homebuyer because you know the price points in our communities. You know people are making more money in areas, in some areas more than they've ever made, but it's the cost of living is still high. You know a one-bedroom in Knoxville I don't know about Nashville, where you live, but one bedroom here is the average of $2,000 a month. You know that's a lot.

Speaker 3: 1:38:45

Think about when we started, when we got our apartment. You know that's a lot. And tack on it if you have children. You know food is expensive, gas is expensive, just everything. I think Tennessee as a whole I will say this compared to other states, we're still at a lower price than other states, but we still are expensive as well. So I think that that's the biggest thing that we need help with is the homeless and people being able to have a roof over their head. Do you agree with that?

Speaker 4: 1:39:31

Yeah, I think those are certainly some issues that impacts a lot of people. I mean, I know the pathway to reaching an American dream often is tied to being able to have equity in your home.

Speaker 3: 1:39:45

Yes.

Speaker 4: 1:39:46

And when people if we have a population of too many people who are renters, they're not able to ever fully reach their potential.

Speaker 3: 1:39:54

And you're seeing more and more renters and that that's the sad part. But I just pray that we have more home ownership in Tennessee. Tennessee is a great state and that's why people are moving here, but I just I love the family part of Tennessee, that we are the volunteer state. We love our community and we want to build up our community. So my next question is what is some of the most exciting or impactful statewide initiatives currently under underway through Leadership Knoxville, if you can?

Speaker 4: 1:40:29

answer that question? Well, so for Leadership Tennessee, we are going to. Actually, we have a new date for our signature, one of our signature events, which is the Dolly Parton Excellence in Leadership Awards this year. This year, our board member and very deserving person, janet Ayers, is the honoree. We had to push the date back to rural communities and educate people from rural areas, just as such such a great organization, but she's also a great person and a big supporter of leadership Tennessee, but she's been honored, dolly part. Just to give you a background on it, dolly Parton was the inaugural recipient of the Dolly Parton Excellence Leadership Award in 2018. That was a five-year celebration and then, once we after that, knoxville's two of Knoxville's finest Governor, bill and First Lady Chrissy Haslam, received the award in 2021. And now Mrs Ayers is going to receive the award this August.

Speaker 3: 1:41:55

That's amazing so.

Speaker 4: 1:41:57

Dolly Parton, recipient of the first award. She gave the award to the Haslams and this time the Haslams will give it to Mrs Ayers.

Speaker 1: 1:42:07

So I'm not sure if she's going to make it in a 10, this time.

Speaker 4: 1:42:10

Dolly was at the last one. I don't know if she's going to be at this one, but certainly hope that she will be there. But it's going to be a great event in Franklin, Tennessee. We're going to be outside of Nashville in. Franklin at the Franklin Factory and more information. August 28th more information will be on our website, and it's not just for Leadership. Tennessee alums. Either it's for, we'll open it up. We want to first sell to as many alums as possible before we open it up.

Speaker 4: 1:42:37

But there'll be non-Leadership Tennessee alumni there as well.

Speaker 3: 1:42:41

I would love to come. I would love to come, so I hope they open it up for others to come outside.

Speaker 4: 1:42:47

Certainly, I'll let you know.

Speaker 3: 1:42:48

Yes, most definitely. So what is the next? What in the future? You say the next thing that you want Leadership Tennessee to be known as.

Speaker 4: 1:43:02

Well, the beautiful part of running an organization like this is Leadership Tennessee.

Speaker 4: 1:43:10

Although we're new we're founded in 2013, it has a huge reputation across the nation and that goes to my predecessor, who did an excellent job leading it for the first several years Before I got here. I think our team has done a good job of keeping us on that upper trajectory. We're regarded as one of the top statewide community leadership programs and we're also a community with others, so I'm on the board for the Association for Leadership Programs, which is the national board. Leadership Knoxville is a part of it as well, but we get together with a bunch of other community leadership programs across the nation and we talk about what's going on, and that's really an insightful conference because you get to hear from people who lead organizations similar to leadership knoxville and leadership tennessee, but all across the nation, and you get to learn, you get inspired you get inspired by it and I mean, like some would say, like I would imagine that people look at the role that I have and say you know, I bet you get tired of hearing the same thing.

Speaker 4: 1:44:15

I'm like well, actually we don't hear the same thing. I mean, some things you're going to get every single time.

Speaker 3: 1:44:21

Correct.

Speaker 4: 1:44:21

But I mean I think about, like, when we come here to Knoxville, big Jim Haslam is just, oh my God, he, he is one of the most remarkable people I've ever met in my life, and when he can come and talk to our members about his life and all the things he's done and and how how much he loves programs like ours, he loves leadership. Knoxville that's his baby, but he really cares about these programs.

Speaker 3: 1:44:48

I heard from.

Speaker 4: 1:44:49

Senator.

Speaker 4: 1:44:50

Alexander last night said he thinks that these programs are so important to the overall fabric of our state and the region. It helps us think about issues and not just think about it. But if things could be solved? We have the right people in the room from public, private and non-profit sectors who can actually move the needle in the direction we want to move it like. That's the. That's the most beautiful part about running an organization like this or or even being associated with it. It's like you get all these smart people in the room who care about the state and say we want to do some things. I imagine we'll probably host a gubernatorial debate. We've done that before in the past. We partnered with the Tennessean and, I guess, usa Today to do those and we're certainly going because we're not about. You're probably thinking, well, that's political. No, it's not political. These are people who are running and we want to make sure our membership and those across the state who we're associated with have the opportunity to hear from the person who's going to be the next governor. Yes.

Speaker 4: 1:45:56

And to see it because it's important and that's really up my alley anyway, because I love the political side of it.

Speaker 3: 1:46:03

I was going to say your political background, but those are things that I think that we do very well.

Speaker 4: 1:46:08

I think to be critical of leadership tendency and I can't be too critical of it, but I'll just say I wish we had a little more rural representation. Like I know, we get to go to some rural areas and we're working on that. We're going through our strategic plan we already had it and we're trying to fulfill what's in there for our metrics. But I really want us to look at the state seal. You know what two words on there that you know, I don't want to put you on the spot. The state seal of Tennessee.

Speaker 4: 1:46:41

I'll call you in rather than call you out. But it says agriculture and commerce. Those are the two things that are on there. Yes, so if we're not focused on the things that make us such a great state, particularly the agriculture piece and the people in the rural areas tend to do a little more farming than the urban areas Right, Right. So those are things we can get a little stronger in, and we're trying our hardest to make sure that we have a more diverse population of our membership.

Speaker 4: 1:47:15

And I'm not saying diverse in a way that that's probably a bad way to say now diverse in terms of you know location, you know diverse in industry.

Speaker 3: 1:47:27

Yes.

Speaker 4: 1:47:27

Because we can't have 30 teachers.

Speaker 3: 1:47:30

Right.

Speaker 4: 1:47:31

You know going through a program and we're going to talk about everything that's going on. It's probably a good thing for teachers to have their own leadership program or something they can do, but this was designed to bring different people who would never get together.

Speaker 3: 1:47:44

The ball walks a lot Into a room.

Speaker 4: 1:47:46

Yes, so they can talk about issues, because we make assumptions. And, and I'll never forget, my first meet with big jim has him. He said, alfred, you have one of the most important jobs in the state and and I was like I didn't expect that. But what he said was today we live in a society where people retreat to their corners. They point and say I don't like yvonca, but I don't know her either, but I don't like her.

Speaker 3: 1:48:07

Yes, and I it's something say I don't like.

Speaker 4: 1:48:08

Ivanka, but I don't know her either, but I don't like her and it's something about her I don't like. But we're going to bring you together. Put you at a table and then focus on some issues. That improves our state. That's beauty.

Speaker 3: 1:48:23

And get to know people who they are, instead of judging them across the room when you really don't know them, don't know anything about them. You know, I think that's the biggest thing like what leadership and also me going through the program is. They put 61 people in a room and you know, you would think I would have known quite a bit of the people in my class before. I only knew three people in that class when I started and it was a good thing I'll never forget.

Speaker 4: 1:48:55

But you probably sold them all their houses, though you just didn't know them. You know, yeah, there you go, there you go.

Speaker 3: 1:49:01

Yes, but I'm like I said to Tammy I'll never forget the first day she said to me. She was like you probably know that a lot of these people are here. I was like Tammy, no, I don't, and she goes. She was like is that a bad thing? I was like, no, it's a good thing.

Speaker 3: 1:49:18

I said because I want to meet new people and I want to be a great leader and you've got to get in a room with people that has done more than you've done in your life and listen. You know, and when you're talking about Jim Haslam, he, he spoke, our very first class Okay, him and his wife, both were there and both of them, you know, shared. And what my takeaway from him was this man is 95 years old and he is still. This man is 95 years old and he is still wanting to be a leader and wanting to make a difference. How can I ever stop being a leader when someone that has done as much as this man has done? He could say I want to retire and I just want to. You know, just be me for a moment.

Speaker 3: 1:50:07

No, not Jim Haslam, because he stood there. I mean, he spoke there and said you know what Keep doing, keep working, keep trying to make your community better. And so I took away that, like I got more to do, I've got more to do. If a 95 year old person is saying they're still working, who am I to say? Not to work? So I want to thank you for coming thank you for having me, and sitting down have a conversation.

Speaker 3: 1:50:36

The door is open. Uh, always to you, you know. I would love to bring you back on one of our panel discussions because I think that you have a lot to offer and I think people want to hear you know. What is Alfred doing now, so thank you for coming.

Speaker 4: 1:50:51

Thank you, thank you so much, and this has been great to be here and to just really think about some things that we do, and I just want to express my gratitude for you inviting me here today. Thank, you.

Speaker 3: 1:51:06

Thank you most definitely and, like said, the door is always open. Tune in every Friday to Talk in Tennessee. Bye guys.